Sex and Society...
Today I was thinking about sex, sexuality, making love, definitions of what is accepted in society, what is actually done in society...
Most people think that I am very sexually experienced. Some people think that I have sexual experience. Barely anyone thinks that I am as sexually inexperienced as I really am.
Why?
Is it because the preconceived notions that Americans are whores?
Most likely.
Is it because I am comfortable discussing issues relating to sex and sexuality?
Probably.
Is it because I am a sex crazed animal?
I doubt it.
I know a lot of people a lot more experienced than I am. Not a lot of people would believe it because they cover it up so well.
They act exactly how society would like them to act..
well, they do when people are looking that is.
In Egypt I have met more women who sleep with their boyfriends in return for a lot of nice, fun, expensive outings.
Are they whores?
Some yes, some no.
Do they fit the definition of prostitutes?
To me they do.
I guess it it more of a barter system. They satisfy the man's fantasies and sexual desire and in return the man takes them out and pays for everything...
I hate the fact that these women are probably looked upon in a more favorable light than I am in this society.
I hate that in this society I am labelled as a whore by more people than I can count because I am not as good at lying, being two faced, or whatever else you want to call it.
I hate the fact that men can say that they have slept with me because their ego could not deal with the fact that the "American whore" refused them.
I hate the fact that society is more inclined to believe them because they are men, and because I was raised abroad!
Just because I would salute the stars and stripes growing up does not mean that I will lay down with every man!!
On a semi-related topic... why is this country all about sex and virginity anyway?
Men are out trying to sleep with everything that walks upright all the time. Some women are doing the same.
These men will rarely ever marry a women who is not a virgin.
These women will deny anything and everything.
It is all about sex and virginity!
So, everybody cares about virginity. It is such a big deal here.
I do think that virginity is a big deal. Most likely for reasons completely different than the majority of the population.
Why do men care about virginity so much?
I really do not get their reasonings. I have asked some of my close male friends before. None of their reasons ever made sense to me. It doesn't matter if they make sense to me or not..
but do they make sense to anyone?
Is it their fear of comparison? Is it that they doubt their sexual ability to the point that they would want to make sure that the women in their lives are ignorant and oblivious?
I have heard that Egyptian men are selfish and are only concerned with themselves reaching orgasm. They could care less if the woman they are with enjoyed it or not.
I have heard from men that Egyptian women are really bad in bed also. That they scream and make a lot more noise than what they should. In other words, they are faking their enjoyment to please the man. Why do women do that? Why do they accept that? Do these women not realize how degrading that should be?
So, if women are bad in bed.. and men are bad in bed... why does the whole country think about sex so much.
With the amount of thought that people put into sex and sexual issues you would think that at least they had a good reputation internationally.
So, if they are so horrible.. why do men gather around and talk about their latest conquests?
Why do women question their newly married friends incessantly?
Is their nothing better to talk or think about?
If everybody is thinking about it, the majority are talking about it, and quite a few are doing it.. why is it not accepted in this society?
24 Comments:
Nora, i got to say i absolutely understand your frustration. This level of idiocy and hypocracy is what led me to leave Egypt for good.
The one good thing about Egypt though, that somewhere in this crazy country, you will find a group of people that share your thoughts and believes. Once you find them, if you ever do, things will be much bearable.
All thayt aside, great post. one of the rare times I find people tackling the subject of sexuality so objectively.
MemZ
i think the solution is for egyptian girls to sleep exclusively with foreign guys - teach the egyptian men a lesson....
great post, as always.
Memz:
I think I have found that group of people. Sadly, the minority are Egyptian. I am not sure if that group of Egyptians actually exists or not!!!
Thanks.. glad you liked the post.
Tom:
Great idea!
I wonder what the reprecussions of it would be. Foreign men being harrassed by hordes of veiled women.
What is the ratio of foreign men to Egyptian women in this country?
I completely support this idea!!
great post my lovely nora! As usual you are spot on.
It's also worth mentioning that virgins are rarely found hence a lot of the virgins that men end up marrying are virgins by "artificial" means.
Superluli,
Thanks babe...
I was trying to find statistics on how many of those surgeries happen a year.. but I'm not surprised that I couldn't ;o)
you know at the beginning of last semster I was so into that topic that I wrote a research paper on it but I didn't put much effort in it... I guess I was lazy ... it was about the sexual frustration of youth in the middle east, I can show it to you but it's not that good
This is a great post - something we talked about at school, remember? -- i.e. the skirt vs. pants kind of woman and how Egyptian men (well, maybe most but not mine :)) have no idea how to please a women. We know that this society is repressed when it comes to sex; my God men and women cannot even kiss in public! It is completely unfair that men are expected to be experienced and women are expected to remain virgins until marriage. Yes, well, you can classify me in the category of saluting the stars and stripes but that doesn't mean I'm a whore; just open-minded.
Marian
hmmm....
Virginity and Sex.
not trying to boost the ratings by any chance huh? :)
first things first.
thanks nora for the support @ my blog and thanks for the cheering and willing me to write bit
now,
I have always claimed that the reason most egyptian men want to marry a virgin is because it's imbred to them generation after generation. ONE guy marries a non-virgin who makes a fucked up comment about the size of his thing :) and all men decide that ignorance is a blessing in that particular case
a non-virgin is demanding cuz she knows the difference between what's good and what's not (or so they think)
even if you're crap in bed you can still impress a virgin (or so they think bardo)
you mentioned fear of comparison in your post and that's probably one of the main reasons why men want to marry a virgin
okay now i hear the religious folk chasing after me.
but religion aside (it's not like all the ones who are insistent on marrying a virgin are koran/bible/something weilding people, in fact some of the ones i know are the biggest man-whores on the face of the planet yet they still want to marry a virgin
i do not support pre-marital sex myself.... actually i just support a fair balance, either both virgins and explore the wonderful world that is sex or both be experimental freaks who have a couple of emergency room visits under their belt :)
i'm losing track....
i think i'll just write a post :)
aslan i have a draft related to that topic
but it's still a bit rough
thanks for the motivation to finish it
The lonely twin:
I would love to see it!!
Maybe over sushi sometime.. hint hint hint!
Marian:
This is one of the topics we discussed many times at work. i think the sexual frustration was overly apparent. I also think that we were subjectto the bastardly comments made by sexually frustrated men who think that Americans are whores.. unfortunately.. we always had reason to talk about this!!
Do youthink things would be different in this society if men and women we allowed to kiss publicly on the streets? For some reason I don't. I think that Egyptians living abroad still have the same perception about sex, virginity, and all that jazz...
Miss you!!
Kareem:
I doubt it was to boost the ratings... I was talking with my boyfriend about the topic and I was thining about it since then...
You're welcome for the support. I really wish you would write soon.. reading your blog is always entertaining.
You're welcome for the motivation to finish the post.. just do it soon!!
;o)
I think this goes in line with why men walk down the street arm in arm -- because they cannot touch a woman!! I know I'm getting on a tangent here, but it's all interconnected. If men and women could touch publicly and without judgment then maybe there would be a lot less Mr. Ts in this world.
In regards to Egyptian men living abroad, my husband is definitely the exception. He is open-minded free thinking, and non-judgmental of others. I didn't know what Egyptian men were like until I met him, because he was the first Egyptian man I ever met, and then I thought all Egyptian men were LIKE him. Obviously I was very wrong. Thank God.
I miss you too!! Have a safe trip to the States.
I definitely think a lot of issues are related to this topic. I wonder what is the root of the issue and what stems from it.
I agree that men are a lot more touchy feely here and it probably has something to do with the fact that they can't touch a woman.. until they re married. Or shouldn't touch a woman anyway...
I head that in Saudi Arabia things are much worse, which strengthens the argument that public disapproval of relationships between men and women is leading to a lot more shit going on between men...
You are lucky to have one of the few open minded Egyptian men.. but he set up up for what I am assuming was the shock of your life!! After meeting a great guy.. you met Mr. T!!
Not sure if I am going to the states.. ;o(
Family drama that I am thinking of running away from!
Men are out trying to sleep with everything that walks upright all the time.
Are you sure about that, Nora? :D
The thing is (and that's just me): I want to marry a virgin, simply because I want to be the first man in her life because (fair enough) she'll be the first woman in mine. Not because I fear comparison or any other bullshit.
And who says Egyptian men can't please women? May be because I'm half Italian it doesn't apply to me :P
And I agree with Kareem (where are you, man by the way?)
Italiano:
Nice to see you're back online... Where have you been?
Men are out trying to sleep with everything that walks upright all the time.
Are you sure about that, Nora? :D
You disagree??
The thing is (and that's just me): I want to marry a virgin, simply because I want to be the first man in her life because (fair enough) she'll be the first woman in mine. Not because I fear comparison or any other bullshit.
I really respect that.. and that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the double standards. I am talking about the guys who have active sex lives, but then refuse to marry women who are not virgins.. only because they feel non-virgin women are whores.
And who says Egyptian men can't please women? May be because I'm half Italian it doesn't apply to me :P
If your wife will be the first woman in your life, why are you so confident that this does not apply to you? ;oP
And I agree with Kareem
I agree with him too.. the guy is just brilliant!! ;o) What do you agree with Kareem about?
i like the post. here is one of my theories:
my solution would be for egyptian women to earn as much money as men, because when they don't have money, they capitalize their bodies in order to have some sort of wealth. then sexual experience is a type of wealth for men, and virginity a type of wealth for women. but a woman with money will use sex for pleasure, not power, looking for men who would be good in bed instead of men who are rich
Jesse:
Excellent theory.
I do not think that all women are having sex to get the guy to pay for things..
I think that even if women had money, society would still not accept it.
Well, actually.. pre-marital sex is more tolerated by the wealthy in this country.
I do not think that it is very feasible for women to make as much as men do in this country...
So, what are your other theories?
I like Jesse's theory as well.
I might as well chime in too...
This whole thing stems back to the early days. Back when people got married when they were 14. It made sense then not to have sex before marriage. After all, look at the physical disaster that results from 12 yr olds having sex. It's not okay now, and it wasn't back then.
Fast forward 1400 years. People are getting married a lot later in life. They're waiting until they're financially stable, mentally prepared, etc. However, the mindset is still the same. Families still care about not being shamed and making sure marriages help the family name.
Part of this, a big part I would say, is the woman involed in the marriage being a virgin. It's non-negotiable. A family would not want to have to explain to others that its son married a "whore." It would be a public relations nightmare. Nor would the guy want to have to explain this to his friends, when it's likely they went out and married virgins.
Virginity, as a result, gets put on a pedastol of sorts. It remains this desired end that men have come to expect. If they don't find a woman with it, tradition allows them to freak out.
From a contemporary perspective, I definitely agree with the comparison theory. Any man that is insecure in such matters worries about comparison, regardless of nationality or race. But in this setting, could a man bear to live with a wife that knows he's not good? I highly doubt it. Again, tradition allows a hissy fit.
The same thing that Jesse is suggesting happened in North America. Once woman started earning similar salaries, sex became less about power and more about pleasure. The same thing would happen in Egypt. Even still, it's the hissy fit-breeding tradition that will need to be modified before we see any real progress.
If anything, the best we can hope for is free choice. If people want to wait, great. If not, they shouldn't be judged for it.
always good to bring in history. remember that in the good old days the only way a gentleman could be reasonably sure that the child was his own was that his wife was a virgin, something that is demonstrable. men do not like raising other mens' children. i think many male animals are like that as well.
one etymology, just for fun: hymen- from the greek god of marriage having the same name.
then back in the good old days you couldn't always take a shower immediately before or after sex
Reminds me of the Dave Chappelle skit called The Haters' Ball.
"Buc Nasty is nominated [for Hater of the Year] for getting his best friend's wife pregnant, and then tricking his best friend into raisin' the little m****f****."
Kent,
Thanks for the historical perspective. It makes a lot of sense..
If anything, the best we can hope for is free choice. If people want to wait, great. If not, they shouldn't be judged for it.
I definitely agree!
Jesse,
Is that true?
What did they do about women having extra-marital affairs? Would the husband just raise the kids then?
Hi Nora,
Just another thought, do you think American soaps and movies, have contributed in any way in making Egyptian/a majority of the men in Middle East, believe that all american women are whores?
The way its shown on TV that its so easy to make out with 'western' girls, is a big factor.
that's a good question for everyone. what would you do?
Nice post, even if a tad too harsh.
Experience called Life,
Yeah I am sure that somehow it does influence people's perceptions. One of the first things a guy told me when I first moved to Egypt was that "TV has taught us that all Americans are easy.."
I was bitter and informed him that "it's fine, TV has taught us that all Arabs are terrorists".
I guess in my case and his we were extrememly influenced by television and the way that the other culture was portrayed.
Jesse,
Well, I hope I would never have an affair.. but if I did and I did get pregnant, I would not have my husband raise the child thinking it was his. I would tell him and most likely end up getting a divorce.
What about you?
Maxxed Out,
What do you think was too harsh?
Anyway, glad you liked it.. ;o)
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